Joel Osteen on Larry King Live
Sorry for the flood of posts today, but that’s just my writing style. When I have something to write about, I’ll post it, when I don’t, I’m not going to just blog to make things look busy. Anyway, over at Broken Messenger, there is a long post about Joel Osteen’s interview on Larry King Live. The author is a bit rough on Osteen, but nevertheless, he transcribes the interview for you to read and make up your own mind. I was, at times, impressed with Osteen’s answers. He seems to know what it takes to be a medium between non-believing and believing. I invite you to read the interview, then post your comments.
I am a member at Lakewood Church, and what Broker Messenger missed was Joel’s letter stating in detail that he believes that there is only one way into heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.
He actually opened the broadcast to the service the following week with that disclaimer.
I love my pastor because he is humble and real, just like his father was.
I saw that interview and just cringed throughout. What a missed opportunity! I have only seen Osteen on TV a few times and I don’t know his doctrine. But he had an opportunity here and completely squandered it, because I believe viewers were left with the distinct impression that Christianity is very laissez-faire and that your intentions are the main thing that justifies you before God. When you dissect each statement, as Broken Messenger did, it’s true that that is not exactly what he said, and I’m sure didn’t intend to say.
But the overall interview gave that impression. A lost person would, I believe, view that interview and think that they are doing okay “as is” - no need to change anything in order to get into heaven.
Sounds like a rerun of an interview he gave a while back. And yes, he did clear things up much better afterward.
After reading the entire transcript, I have to agree with Laura. For me, three things really stuck out. (1) Osteen is squishy about saying Christ is the only way and all other roads lead to hell. Related to this, (2) he won’t call people sinners. Why not? That’s what we are. A gospel without this is not the Gospel. (3) The Christian life is not easy. Tell the whole gospel message hear, and you’re narrow-minded and bigoted. Overseas, ask the people listed at http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm what following Christ will cost.
Well, let me ask this. Do you think a hardline approach (aka “repent or be sent to hell”) is the best way to introduce people to Christianity and Jesus?
You can and must do it without being hardline. Flat out telling people they are on the way to hell is just a turn off. You let them see for themselves. Check out Way of the Master (http://www.wayofthemaster.com). Non-confrontational, non-hardline. You layout the facts, and it’s up to the person to see where they stand for themselves. I know someone who is “street preaching” using this method. He just picks someone out of the crowd and walks them through God’s law. A few hecklers just makes the crowd grow. The rest just stand there, quietly taking it all in. Some leave in tears, many stay after to chat one-on-one. Througout it all, the closest thing to an accusation is, “By your own admission you are a lying, thieving, adulterous, murderer. You know the justice God demands and the fine that must be paid. And you know the gift of mercy He offers through Jesus. It’s up to you to choose whether you accept the gift. I know it’s scary. What will your family and friends think? But do you think you’ll be worried about that when you stand before God? It IS a big decision. But please, please, will you think about it?” The only people being confrontational and hardline are the hecklers. And for perhaps the first time ever, some people see real Christianity, not the caricature commonly portrayed in the mass media.
acb asks a good question.
“You must do it without being hardline”
You do not understand what “rejection” means and with all your hell fire and brimestone nonsense completely misunderstand the scriptures. You need to purge all that Papist crap from your beliefs.
Romans 11:26 “And so ALL Israel shall be saved.” Now how do you think that is going happen with all those Brits, Yanks and Jews who actively deny and ‘reject’ Christ?
Ever heard of that Scripture “For EVERY knee shall bow to Him
Y2T
Well, the Scriptures do say that ultimately “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow… and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11). They also say that at the Second Coming, “every eye shall see [Christ], and they also which pierced him: and all kindred of the earth shall wail because of him (even so, may it be so)” (Rev. 1:7). Nobody wails at the coming of someone they welcome. Rev. 20 also indicates that judgment and punishment (”the second death,”) far from being “crap,” will be soon be just as real for some as resurrection, favorable judgment, and reward will be for others.
I’m not quite sure what Y2T meant, really, and am hoping he/she will explain. Surely Y2T didn’t mean that everybody would be saved? As for “all Israel,” Paul does explain that “they are not all Israel who are of Israel… the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (Rom. 9:6,8). He further notes that “he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter” (Rom. 2:29), and that “if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). Among the saved will be representatives of “all nations, and kindreds, and peoples, and tongues” (Rev. 7:9), but anybody saved will be saved because of Jesus, not because of genes.
Fear, though, is a visceral response, while a decision for Christ should be a deliberate, intellectual one. In Isa 1:18, God asks us to “reason” with him on the issue of salvation; so that we can stay connected with him, he asks us to be conscious, sober, and vigilant — and all of those adjectives imply that the mind is in control, not a reflex response. So I think invoking fear to secure “conversion” is wrong and counterproductive. Fear cannot truly convert anyway. Only the Spirit working on the mind can.
Hello KM,
Our Lord said “All will be revealed” and His message through me is part of that revealing to a Papist deceived church. For all of mainstream Christianity in these last of these last days is deceived, deceived by the whore of Babylon in Rome. That is why I called it Papist crap and I noticed you omitted to use the word Papist in your reply.
I also noticed you omitted to address the main thrust of my point - rejection, which most of mainstream Christianity fails to understand; as I said in my original post. So would you mind explaining what you think rejection is, when dealing with the message of Jesus Christ, Salvation and the Kingdom of God? I want you to think on this question in relation to John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Y2T
Y2T, out of courtesy to acb, I’d rather not hijack this blog — but I’d be more than happy to keep talking with you either in your own blogspace or via email.
God bless.
One of my blogs is http://graceforfreedom.blogspot.com/
Have a read and tell me what you think.
Y2T
Hello KM,
http://graceforfreedom.blogspot.com/
Contact me there.
Y2T
KM,
Here is one of my blogs http://graceforfreedom.blogspot.com/
Have a read a see if you agree if not then there will be no point in our communicating further.
Y2T
There seems to be all kinds of problems with the server for this site!
Y2T
From KM
Interesting ideas, Y2T. I agree that once I am in Christ, I receive new status and identity. I also agree that a tendency to wallow in guilt would undermine the free gift that I’ve already been given and have accepted. I believe that dredging up stuff confessed and forsaken is a timewaster. I also believe that God, who is beyond time, well knows what I’m going to do before I do it. Whether I shall err or not, He knows. He loves me no less. My “heavenly citizenship,” then, is not dependent on my behavior; my identity as God’s child is quite distinct from what I do.
There is another side, though, which is where I think my position differs slightly from the ideas in the post. A few relational metaphors may illustrate better than I can.
1. I’m dancing with someone, happy and contented. I miss a beat, and step on my partner’s foot. I didn’t plan to do so; my partner understands that. Nevertheless, it’s good manners for me to acknowledge that something happened. I know my partner and I will keep dancing; so does my partner. But I still acknowledge the misstep; my partner nods, and we keep dancing.
2. I’m with my friend cooking dinner in his kitchen, busy stirring several dishes at the same time. . Broiler bubbles over, I overcompensate with the big wooden spoon, and there’s a mess on the floor. Didn’t plan a mess. No crisis; he doesn’t kick me out of his house or reject me eternally; that’s not the kind of relationship we have. Yet someone still has to clean up that mess. Well, what if my friend does it for me? Then I’m very grateful, and so I say so. So I acknowledge it, my partner cleans up the mess, we eat dinner, and life goes on. I may well say I’m grateful. But I cannot be truly grateful if I don’t acknowledge that (a) there is a mess (b) for which I was responsible (c) that my friend graciously dealt with on my behalf.
Confession to me doesn’t mean beating up oneself or working feverishly to fix anything. To me it simply means acknowledgement. That acknowledgement is not for my friend’s benefit. It’s for mine. It’s something like courtesy. Neither my status nor identity are dependent on it, but neither status nor identity negate it either. “Please” and “thank you” do have a small place in the relationship between God and His children even if they don’t alter His foreknowledge, perfect provision, or total salvation. That’s how I see it.
Peace.
I am not going to engage you on a ‘no reply’ e-mail system so I have returned to the blog.
Your opening remark ‘Interesting ideas’ betrays you as a Bible Intellectual. The Truth is not an idea it is Jesus Christ and the diatribe that follows your opening remarks is just contradiction or a subtle cover for your ’salvation by process’ beliefs. I must admit it is the best effort I have experienced but it all adds up to salvation by works or I cannot be saved unless I add my pennyworth.
All in vain KM.
Y2T
PS
KM
Please show me in Scripture where repetitive confession to Our Lord is instructed
Y2T
No, Y2T, I never said that my actions contribute to salvation. In fact, I said several times that “Neither my status nor identity are dependent” on me, that “My ‘heavenly citizenship’ … is not dependent on my behavior; my identity as God’s child is quite distinct from what I do.” I already am saved. That’s a done deal. It was God’s act, the merits of which I have accepted. That is not by any stretch “salvation by works.” That is salvation by faith: accepting what was given.
I actually don’t disparage reasoning, thought, or intellect, as you obviously do, Y2T, and so don’t consider it a “betrayal” to humbly apply that mind to the things of God. A sharp mind is as much a blessing as a healthy body; God values both. One obvious pitfall is to assume that one can operate on reason alone — an attitude 1 Cor and Ecclesiastes describe as foolish. Another pitfall is to assume that one need not think at all. That, too, would be silly. God calls us to consider, prove, judge, and reason the things of salvation (Isaiah 1:18). Paul likewise exhorts us to “prove,” test, examine, and scrutinize the will of God (Rom 12:2). Intellect, directed by and submitted to the Spirit, is quite in order.
What I offered you, Y2T, were analogies. Analogies are necessarily imperfect correlations, especially in spiritual matters — but they do help to convey a point. But then all through the gospels people misunderstood Jesus’ analogies… that’s part of the challenge with communicating perfect ideas to imperfect people.
I said quite clearly where we agreed. It’s equally clear that on some things you and I differ. Either way, you probably don’t realize how aggressive you’ve sounded so far. What has been coming across, at least to me, is that you are convinced not only that your understanding is flawless but that your understanding also perfectly matches Jesus’. I don’t know if that’s intentional.
“Salvation by process”? No, I don’t subscribe to that. But “growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ” (2 Pet 3:18)? Yes, I do subscribe to that. I believe that God’s knowledge of me is complete, and that His provision for me is likewise complete. But *my* own knowledge of my state has grown the more I’m in His presence, and so my *awareness* of my reality and the greatness of God’s gift has also grown. It’s not that the gift was imperfect, but that my understanding has been limited such that I haven’t seen all that He has always known about. When He points out one of those things to me, having already covered me, He also removes it from me. He saved me as He found me, and yet I am so not the same as I was back then. That may not been your experience, Y2T, but it has been mine. Philippians 3. I see both an “already and a not yet”; that’s a paradox, not a contradiction, and I don’t believe it to be problematic.
“Repetitive confession” sounds to me like guilting oneself over past acts like saying “1, 1, 1, 1″ over and over again, even though one has submitted to Christ and repented or turned away from those acts. That isn’t Biblically supported, but I have never said it was. You, however, seem to be saying that saying “1, 1, 1, 1″ is the same as saying “1, 2, 3, 4″. That’s what I don’t agree with and I don’t think Scripture supports the equation either.
All of this, by the way, seems very distant from acb’s original post.
The point I made in the beginning was ‘rejection’ and how mainstream Christians don’t understand it and I have not had an answer from you on this original topic. And it is not me that went off topic either.
As for my agressiveness you will find that Our Lord was quite agressive at times too.
Y2F
Ok… so “mainstream Christians” don’t understand what about rejection?
I will tell you after you tell me what your definition of rejection is.
Apologies; yes2truth and yes2faith are two handles I use.
To reject is to decline, rebuff, frustrate, or ignore.
Yes all those things but you have missed out the more powerful and expressive definitions of this word which apply to rejection of Jesus Christ.
To renounce or throw away or discard with no further use for to treat with utter contempt.
Now in order to react in this way when rejecting a person there has to have been a relationship in the first place in order for REAL rejection to take place and for which in the case of rejecting Jesus Christ there is no forgiveness. For if the individual continues in his stubborn refusal to come back to The Lord he has then committed the unpardonable sin.
Yet EVEN whilst Our Lord was dying in agony on the cross He said “Father FORGIVE THEM for they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.” What you have to ask yourself KM is: Did The Father answer Our Lord’s request.
Now this is the basic fact which mainstream Christianity misses because this ‘rejection’ can be likened to a child who when offered a meal that mum has never prepared before will often say “ugh I don’t like it and I don’t want it” and no amount of persuasion will get naughty little Johnny to change his mind. This is not true rejection and all those who will be part of the second resurrection will get their chance. See Rev 20. These people are judged (evaluated) by their works, and we know salvation cannot be earnt by works
so these people have yet to live second PHSYSICAL lives in The Kingdom of God and will be given their FIRST chance to repent. This is why I use John 6:44 because no one can come to Jesus Christ unless The Father draws them. Now ask yourself this question KM - What if the Father ISN’T drawing them, which as an example is definitely the case with Israel?
Now we get back to the Papist crap which I mentioned in the beginning because the evil doctrine of eternal damnation comes from those lying illegitimates in Rome - The Whore of Babylon. (I would use stronger language if this were my blog.) This doctrine permeates throughout much of mainstream Christianity and needs to be repented of because mainstream Christianity has never purged it from their beliefs. They think foolishly that Roman Catholics are Christians when they are not whilst they continue to believe the pope is Christ’s representative on earth.
What mainstream Christianity needs to learn is that Simon Magus in the book of Acts was the founder of Roman Catholicism - you know the one - he tried to buy The Holy Spirit from Peter. The spirit of the love of filthy lucre that has permeated Rome/Babylon from the beginning; amongst numerous other vile blasphemies.
y2f
Surely Y2T didn’t mean that everybody would be saved?
And yes KM I do mean that everyone will be saved but not in this age.
Y2F
I watch Joel’s televised service regularly, and give thanks for his courage. Over on The Holy Inheritance blog I’ve seen a fine tribute to Joel.
It amazes me that Pastor Osteen knows so little about what he claims to represent - Christ. Nearly 89% of the questions answered were simply, “I don’t know.” If Pastor Osteen is as ignorant as he portrayed himself to be during the interview, then he should think twice about leading so many astray. The interview on CNN was my first introduction to Pastor Osteen and I must say that I will never read his books, purchase a ticket to attend his show, nor visit his mega church. The reason Larry King referred to Pastor Osteen as “seemingly 14 years old” is because Pastor Osteen’s mental capacity and life experience is less than
a 14 year old young person.
He (Osteen) should evaluate his motives for his “motivational speaking” and instead of calling himself a a Pastor; he should consider joining the Dr. Phil’s of the world. Promoting his book and speaking engagements seemed more important than challenging people to accept Jesus as their personal savior.
Osteen only preach positive sermons just like Robert Schuller. He won’t preach against sins ! We need to hear sermons as Jesus spoke. Is Vipers a positive tone to you? Of course not. Osteen is a heretic, he preach lies and misled people away from Jesus’ teachings
Hello James and Bibette,
Being a British subject I don’t know much about Mr Osteen but I have just looked up and read the online transcript of the Larry King interview and could not find anything wrong with it other than his mention of Believers going to Heaven.
Believers are not going to Heaven they are going to The Kingdom of God which will be here on this earth with Jesus Christ ruling until the new Heaven and NEW EARTH come down from Heaven with The Father. He is going to make His home with us, not us with Him.
Bibette said:- “The reason Larry King referred to Pastor Osteen as “seemingly 14 years old” is because Pastor Osteen’s mental capacity and life experience is less than
a 14 year old young person.”
Sounds good to me! Matt 18:1-3 “1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
James please note: Kingdom OF Heaven not Kingdom IN Heaven
“Osteen only preach positive sermons just like Robert Schuller. He won’t preach against sins ! We need to hear sermons as Jesus spoke. Is Vipers a positive tone to you? Of course not. Osteen is a heretic, he preach lies and misled people away from Jesus’ teachings”
Our God is a God of love, mercy and forgiveness and I would suggest that Mr Osteen knows this but unfortunately you seem to lack this understanding.
Romans 11:26 “For ALL Israel shall be saved” 1 Tim 2:4 “Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto a knowledge of the Truth.” The Truth being Jesus Christ.
If either of you need further understanding on the two resurrections please feel free to ask me at yes2faith@yahoo.co.uk
Wow, it seems like Christians love to throw sharp stones at each other. I don’t think Joel is a heretic. That seems a little extreme. I admit that he seems too light on some issues. I hope and pray that God will guide him and his congregation. I think it’s important to show the error, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I sincerely believe that Joel is trying his best to follow after Christ. He may be off on a lot of things, but don’t just huck stones at him mercilessly. Pray for him and speak the truth in love. We all have a lot to learn as Christ followers, Joel included. It’s good to be zealous for truth, but just remember we are all in this together. Pray, Christians, pray.
“It’s good to be zealous for truth, but just remember we are all in this together. Pray, Christians, pray. ”
Exactly…I think Jesus cringes seeing Christians attack each other.
joel osteen had a good oportunity to set a standard for christianity and he came off not trying to affend no one or sir up any controversy or anything that was not who jesus was not that he should of been trying but he was making a great effort to play it safe
Joel Osteen clearly contradicts himself and he seems to be unsure of many questions. He says ‘he only teaches what the bible says’…he obviously hasn’t read the bible then, and iI find there is no point even debating his validity as a true leader. His ministry is contrary to true the foundation of christian belief which is based on the fact that we are all born sinners and the only way to gain salvation is by repentance through Jesus Christ. Being ‘positive’ is a good way to approach non-christians, but as believers, newborns will need more than just milk to grow. That’s why we must read the bible. Joel Osteen…please open the Word of God..the answers are provided.